Discussion Topics:

*   Lifestyle factors affecting health, specifically sleep.

*   Hormones and their impact on health.

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Lactoferrin:
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*   Dr. Doug discussed Lactoferrin as an alternative to calcium supplements.

*   Lactoferrin is beneficial for bone density and binds with iron, reducing oxidative stress.

*   It's recommended for osteoporosis and those with excess iron.

*   Dosage: Products range from 250 to 350 milligrams, with no clear preference for higher doses.

*   The video titled "New Supplement for Bone Building" was referenced for more information.

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Milk Basic Protein (MBP):

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*   MBP contains Lactoferrin and Lactoperoxidase.

*   It's challenging to recommend due to limited purchasing options.

*   Lactoferrin alone is suggested as a more accessible alternative.

**  

Testosterone:**

*   Women absorb testosterone differently, and symptoms vary.

*   Total testosterone levels may not reflect free testosterone levels, which are more indicative of the body's use of the hormone.

*   Symptoms to monitor include brain fog, fatigue, sleep quality, skin health, and muscle mass.

*   The "sweet spot" for testosterone levels is debated and should be personalized.

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Supplements on Amazon:
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*   Dr. Doug advised against purchasing supplements on Amazon due to potential issues with storage, authenticity, and expiration dates.

Lactoferrin Timing:

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*   Some people take Lactoferrin with every meal to bind iron, though once a day is common.

Testosterone for Bone Health:
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*   The importance of monitoring testosterone levels for bone health was discussed, especially in the context of osteoporosis.

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Calcium Supplements:
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*   Garden of Life's Raw Calcium was compared to AlgaeCal.

*   Concerns about the amount of calcium and the source of ingredients were raised.

*   The importance of quality and trust in supplement companies was emphasized.

Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT):
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*   The discussion included the benefits and complexities of HRT, including the use of estrogen patches and progesterone.

*   The concept of cycling hormones to mimic natural rhythms was explored, particularly for younger women.

Maca Root:
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*   Maca root as a supplement for menopausal symptoms was discussed.

*   It may not be effective for everyone, and its benefits are likely limited to early postmenopausal women.

Recommendations:
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*   Consider Lactoferrin for bone health and iron binding.

*   Be cautious when purchasing supplements from Amazon.

*   Personalize hormone therapy based on individual symptoms and levels.

*   Use trusted sources for supplements to ensure quality and efficacy.

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Dr Doug: and it seemed like, we haven't really talked about lifestyle in a while. So we could talk about some lifestyle things specifically like sleep. Potentially, Nick Troy is gonna do exercise next week. So I'd say, let's avoid exercise.

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Dr Doug: But we could talk about sleep hacks things around there, if that's of interest, or we could do I know there's been always questions about hormones, and we could continue to talk about that.

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Dr Doug: So I think let's just do it. The old fashion way, which is, let's open up the chat, and whoever has a question about either of those 2 topics or anything else burning, why don't you go ahead and drop that in the chat, or just unmute yourself and speak.

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Dr Doug: Hi, Beth.

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sjcsr: Hi! This is Sue Jay.

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Dr Doug: Hi sue.

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sjcsr: Hi, Hi, Dr. Doug, I've been trying to locate that that video you did on something something about and something else you can take. Instead of calcium. It's lack something, or it was it wasn't milk. I I don't think, but I can't.

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Dr Doug: Lactoferrin. Maybe.

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sjcsr: Yeah, I can't find it. Yeah, I've been looking for it.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, well, I can. I'm happy to talk about it. And then

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Dr Doug: excuse me, while I'm doing that I can actually pop up.

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Dr Doug: I've been working on with my team, the naming of the Youtube videos. There's always this like

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Dr Doug: this back and forth of like, what is a click bait, Youtube video title versus like, what can I actually search? So I know what's in the videos? So this is a

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Dr Doug: conversation between the marketing team and me as somebody who wants to know what I just did a video on.

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Dr Doug: But Lactoferrin is probably going to be the one. I think it says something like

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Dr Doug: we a.

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sjcsr: You sent a separate video in the middle of the week.

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Dr Doug: Yeah.

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sjcsr: But you I don't know. If it was a Youtuber, it might have been.

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Dr Doug: Probably

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Dr Doug: I feel like it's something like I don't actually see it in here.

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Dr Doug: Oh, I know, I know. I know

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Dr Doug: Something like milk and a capsule, or something like that.

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sjcsr: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yup.

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Dr Doug: Funny. I don't actually see it either. I wonder if they pulled it down for some reason

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Dr Doug: there's something wrong with it.

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Dr Doug: cause the obvious.

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sjcsr: Question was, if you're lactose, intolerant, what do you do?

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Dr Doug: Yeah. Well, let's just answer that question. It is interesting. I wonder if they pulled it down? If there was something wrong with the video or something, because I actually don't see it.

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Dr Doug: Oh, here it is. No, it's this, they change. Change the name. So this one it's called here. I'll grab a link. I'll drop it in here.

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Dr Doug: but it's called New Supplement for Bone building, new bone building, supplement.

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sjcsr: Yeah.

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Dr Doug: It's not new, but here's

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Dr Doug: Yeah. So then,

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Dr Doug: Audrey, if you could clarify Apollo native, I don't know what that means.

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Dr Doug: So, anyway. So with Lactoferrin, I'll just give you the summary. I would encourage you to watch the video, too, because I go through the research, and it's pretty compelling data. But Lactoferrin is one of the 2 main proteins that you would get in the supplement. I've done a video on before called milk basic protein or Mvp.

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Dr Doug: And Mvp. Has pretty good evidence behind it itself, supportive of increasing vulnerable density. And there's a video on that from I don't know how long ago, a while ago

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Dr Doug: we talked about putting Mvp. In as a recommendation for our patients. But the challenge we have with that is the only company that picked up the proprietary Mvp product is

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Dr Doug: I think it was maybe life ex. No, it wasn't life extent. It was some company that you could only buy it on Amazon, and I hate telling people to buy supplements on Amazon.

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Dr Doug: And so we kinda just shelved it for a while, and then I was doing some research on raw milk, and it brought me back to this idea that lactoferin and lacto proxidates are the 2 proteins in Mvp. And they're kind of dosed

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Dr Doug: at at the 20 milligram dose of each. And so you're going to get about 20 milligrams of lactoferrin, which is about what you would get in a large cup of raw milk.

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Dr Doug: So I was doing some research on raw milk, and then that got me into the Lactoferrin supplements. Lactoferrin alone. And there's a lot of research. I just presented some of it, but a lot of research on Lactoferrin and Halactoferrin has the potential to benefit through, not only providing you know what it does through

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Dr Doug: potentially increasing vulnerable density, and capturing

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Dr Doug: all the things that it does with vitamin d and calcium, but also it binds with iron, and so it reduces oxidative stress of iron overload. So for people that have excess iron, this is becoming something that we will also recommend. So for especially people that have osteoporosis, if they have extra iron floating around while we're working on iron metabolism, we can give them lactoferin regularly. And it's gonna help bind that iron. And it's gonna help to reduce oxidative stress. So that's kinda cool from a dosing perspective, though.

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Dr Doug: the lactoferron products. If you look on full script, I think I dropped one in the the Osteoprosis protocol. I can verify that. Well, unless anybody knows the answer to that.

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Dr Doug: But you'll see them like 2, 50 to 3 50 milligrams.

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Dr Doug: What I like about that is that it's it's getting pretty super therapeutic, meaning that if 20 milligrams. Yeah. So Alan is pointing up the Jarrow product is that 302 50? Alan? Thanks, 2, 50.

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Dr Doug: So so the Jarrow product is one, and then allergy research group arg is another one.

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Dr Doug: And so I'll just log in and make sure that I added that I think I did. Both of those products are good. I don't see a compelling reason to use 350 over 250 milligrams. We don't really have clear dosing in the video. I talk about a couple of studies that used, I think, is a 300 milligram dose. But it's a very specific product that actually isn't available but still compelling to be somewhere around there, but probably higher than that 20 milligram dose. You're gonna get an Mvp.

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Dr Doug: If that makes sense.

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Dr Doug: and I've got the plan. Austria process.

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Dr Doug: I didn't add it, so I'll do it as soon as we're done. There you go.

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Dr Doug: Great.

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sjcsr: Thank you.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, of course.

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Dr Doug: Alright. And then, Alan, yeah, what time of day? So I've worked with some people who like to use this basically, every time you eat, which is a little bit cumbersome. So there's some thought behind, hey? Every time you consume anything that has iron in it, you should consume lactoferin. So I know people that take lactoferrin and vitamin e topic for another day.

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Dr Doug: But Lactoferrin, with every significant meal, with an effort to bind iron, and then also to increase absorption of vitamin, d calcium, etc.

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Dr Doug: You could consider doing it that way.

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Dr Doug: I just take it once a day. I have my kids take it twice a day.

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Dr Doug: There's no hard signs there for sure.

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Dr Doug: Let's do. I'm gonna answer this question from Diane. I don't know if this is Diane Diane Miller, Diane? Question with hand raised, let's do that one first. Diane's ipad.

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Diane’s iPad: Hi, we were talk, just talking about the Mvp. And I. When you first put video out, I bought it. I thought I I need I I've got pretty bad osteoporosis, and so it is this. It.

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Dr Doug: Yes. So that's the bone renew from source naturals. And they got bought by someone. And I think it was life extension, maybe cause. We. We looked into that, and we talked to that company. But anyway, we we decided not to source it, because correct me if I'm wrong. But the only way we could find that you could access it was through Amazon. Is that right? Is that your experience.

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Diane’s iPad: Well, what I'm gonna do in a minute here is I'm gonna go back and find out what I got it through, because I am trying not to buy anything from Amazon now, based on your recommendation, but I can't recall if I got this from or and I'm in Canada so like it could have been. I heard it could have been national to nutrition. Other things that I use that are. So I'm gonna look and see where I did get it from, and if I got it from something other than Amazon, I'll post it in the chat.

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Dr Doug: Okay, yeah. Let me let us know for sure. That'd be great.

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Diane’s iPad: Can I switch just for a second and ask you a question about testosterone.

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Dr Doug: Yeah.

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Diane’s iPad: So I did all my.

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Dr Doug: Guys. I know there's some unresolved lactoferring questions.

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Diane’s iPad: Yeah, sorry. I can wait till Peter.

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Dr Doug: No, that's fine. Go ahead, go ahead! We'll we'll bounce.

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Diane’s iPad: So okay, I am. Thank you for your input in the slack for me about the conversion trying to convert my hormone test from A for something. Got it so I might have. I'm at 20 on testosterone.

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Diane’s iPad: and my.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, got it?

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Diane’s iPad: And that video that you had with the doctor, Gaske was that who it is.

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Dr Doug: Fan.

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Diane’s iPad: Okay, she she had said the sweet zone was 30, and so

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Diane’s iPad: I'm just asking if it's something that I should pursue. You did, put in the slack chat. That

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Diane’s iPad: it's more about symptoms, I mean. I I take hormones, not from menopausal symptoms. I never have. I'm 63, so I didn't. I'm doing it strictly for my bones.

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Dr Doug: Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's kinda it's a challenging space cause what we've picked up on. Now that we're, you know, we have hundreds of people on testosterone, hundreds of women on testosterone and men. But is that women absorb testosterone wildly, differently. Same thing's kind of true with estrogen, too. Which is why I recommend testing but I have women that have testosterone total testosterone levels of 100 to 150, and they have no symptoms, and they feel fantastic.

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Dr Doug: We're also measuring free testosterone. And there's a really interesting difference between women and men here, whereas with women I could have a woman with a total testosterone of 150

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Dr Doug: in a free testosterone that's still barely measurable.

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Dr Doug: And I think this is part of the big reason why some doctors will say don't measure at all, because it doesn't matter. I don't think that it doesn't matter. I think that we just have to know what we're looking at. So for that example, let's say, woman has a total testosterone 150. But her free testosterone is 2.

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Dr Doug: She could potentially even benefit from more testosterone, because her body still isn't really seeing it.

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Dr Doug: But then I start questioning, what are we going to provoke side effects?

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Dr Doug: But as long as we're asking about side effects, you know, being oily skin, acne hair, loss, hair growth. As long as we're asking about those things, and she's not seeing it. Then I'm not afraid to push it up, because total testosterone is irrelevant, because it's all bound to protein, anyway. So it's the free testosterone that matters. And that's why, with Bonnie that interview she's saying, well, 30 is the sweet spot, and that's that's fine.

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Dr Doug: I've noticed, though, that I can get. I would say of all the patients that we have, all the women that we have that have a total testosterone of 30 through replacement.

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Dr Doug: How many of them really feel any different, I would say, probably maybe half.

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Dr Doug: And so the question is, then is that is that the sweet spot?

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Dr Doug: Are they not? Maybe they maybe don't have any symptoms at all. Maybe they don't know what those symptoms are. So it's is. It's challenging. And it takes a lot of back and forth to understand really what what you would be looking for, Diane. And so the things, if you're not experiencing the the traditional symptoms of menopause like hot flashes, night sweats.

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Dr Doug: Then I would look for the things that people don't usually think about, so that things like brain fog, fatigue. You know. How how are you sleeping? You know. How do you feel when you get out of bed in the morning, you know, like, what does your skin look like? What's your muscle mass, or able to put on muscle mass like these are all the things that are testosterone driven.

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Dr Doug: If you look in the literature, they'll talk mostly about like libido and sexual function. We don't really talk about that that much.

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Dr Doug: because mostly people just don't want to talk to me about it, which is fine.

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Dr Doug: But I'm more interested in

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Dr Doug: what it like. What's happening with your lifting, your training, your energy.

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Dr Doug: and that's testosterone.

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Diane’s iPad: Okay, it sounds to me like

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Diane’s iPad: it is quite can't complex. And that so I I know what I need to do is if I can find a a maybe a gynecologist that understand hormones better, because it's really difficult. Here. I my my Gp, says I, go to your gotta know more, and he's he's kind of maxed out on what he knows from my perspective, right? So I don't know that jumping into the testosterone is a good idea until I get somebody who is really comfortable. And it's understanding based on what you've just said.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, it's really hard. That's why we're building. We're building another company specifically to do that on a broader scale. So for people that aren't our patients. We're building this company lotus to to specifically do that. But we won't be able to serve Canada.

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Dr Doug: It's international international laws. Get really murky.

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Diane’s iPad: I hear. Ya.

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Diane’s iPad: thank you very much.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, yeah, you're welcome. So, Lorna, before I hop to your question, I want to answer this.

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Dr Doug: Where to go? Oh, so Caitlin asked, why shouldn't we purchase through Amazon? And so, Caitlin? There's been a number of studies that have come out pulling supplements off of Amazon, and because Amazon doesn't, they don't do a good job of

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Dr Doug: monitoring how things are stored. Who's selling? What? Where did these things come from? What is their expiration date? There's been studies that have looked at supplements pulled off of Amazon, and frequently the the what's in the product is not what the product says. It's been refilled with something else and repackaged. So there's just a lot of there's a lot of potential error ordering from Amazon. And even if it comes from, let's say, like

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Dr Doug: Mvp. From the whatever that company was. Source naturals. And let's say it's like the source naturals site or the source natural sales page on Amazon. So you think, oh, what's coming from the company? There's not even any guarantee that that's actually the company. So just too many, too many potential variables. So that's why we use full script, and we recommend people purchase off a full script, and we try to make it easily available. And you guys all have access to it. So full script.

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Cailin: Yeah, I've been purchasing my aljal plus or not alcal plus the d. 3 complete from Amazon. So I guess I will not be.

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Dr Doug: But election.

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Cailin: And sometimes they have coupons, so.

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Dr Doug: Yeah. And that's all that that potentially could be an exception to the role. And I know the D 3 complete is not on full script, or at least it wasn't. And I've talked to Al Jakal about that. We provided we have a wholesale deal for our patients. That we're leveraging to do that. But I I agree it is a little bit cheaper on Amazon. My concern is, is somebody getting the bottles and repackaging that with something else.

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Cailin: Right? Yeah, would they really do that? That's like a thing that they could legally.

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Dr Doug: Oh, no, it's not legal.

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Cailin: Okay. Alright.

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Dr Doug: It's not legal. It's just you know, people will make a buck doing anything they can.

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Cailin: Gotcha! Alright.

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Dr Doug: Alright. So that's that. So? Then, let's see. Here, I wanna take you lower your hand and then Lorna, why don't I answer your question, then David will go to you.

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Lorna Nichols: Okay, first, real quick. I just bought a bottle bottle of lactoferron on Amazon, and it had a bar code sticker, sure enough, over the expiration date, sure enough, and the expiration date was this month, May 24. So it happens. I I

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Lorna Nichols: pushed. I pushed my luck on that.

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Dr Doug: It's probably fine.

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Lorna Nichols: Good. I'm tanking, anyway. But I also order more on full script. My question is okay. I've been drinking lots. Well, you know this overall milk

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Lorna Nichols: thinking, I'm doing this good thing for myself.

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Lorna Nichols: and I have pretty suddenly developed

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Lorna Nichols: it started out with real stiff hands in the morning. Then sort of stiff everywhere, you know. I kneel down, I'm like, Oh, and I and I'm can't hardly do my exercises, I'm like, Oh, and I'm like is this information? I think it is. Is it from the milk? I've never

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Lorna Nichols: thought that I was milk

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Lorna Nichols: sensitive before. Could it be an overload? Does this sound like a sensitivity to Cason, to you.

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Dr Doug: It could be it could be. There are also a lot of variables, Lorna, because you're changing a lot of things all at once.

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Dr Doug: Right. So it could be that you're, you know. Are you over training respectively like, are you over training for you and and not recover? But but for you right. So like, are you over training and not recovering? Is it something else? So it it could be the milk. But the nice thing about this is that because you're on a pretty consistent schedule, or at least you should be with all the things that you're doing? I would say, if you think it's the milk.

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Dr Doug: Finish up what you have. Don't order more, and then see if it changes, but try to keep everything else consistent, and just do a little test. Do a little subtraction test and see how. See how it pans out? It is possible, right? Because dairy has so many potential proteins that are inflammatory.

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Lorna Nichols: That's what I'm doing. I've cut out the milk, not change anything else.

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Lorna Nichols: And of course, immediately. Then I had the concern. Oh, God, I was relying on that for my calcium. Now I'm like

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Lorna Nichols: so so I need to order algae cal real quick, I guess.

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Lorna Nichols: and I don't even know how to get it through through you all yet.

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Dr Doug: Just email, Tiffany.

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Lorna Nichols: Tiffany. Okay, okay. So that's I'm gone doing the experiment. Thank you very much.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, no problem. And again, it's possible. And that's why. So I just, I'm rescripting. I recorded last week. But I'm rescripting

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Dr Doug: a video on my my top. 3 foods for osteoporosis, and

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Dr Doug: milk is on there, but there's such a caveat of like it doesn't not? Everybody can drink milk. And then so if you can't, that's okay. And there are lots of lots of tools. It's just a tool. And I think raw milk is a really cool tool as long as you can get it from a good place.

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Dr Doug: Thank you. Yes, David.

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David Callen: Just couple of quick questions. One is, when I was researching Lactile Fair and a lot of the recommendations was just for a time I'm assuming we just take Lactile Fair, and as long as we got osteoporosis.

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Dr Doug: That's a good question, you know, like I would not consider Lactoferin like an essential nutrient

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Dr Doug: right? So like you could argue like magnesium if we can't get it through food when I have to take magnesium forever. Lactoferin is a tool. That's a popular tool in certain spaces, but I would consider it a tool. And yeah, once you are headed in the right direction, and you start peeling things off of your stack. That could certainly be one of the things that you would peel off.

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David Callen: Okay? Then the next question is.

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David Callen: I'm been taken Mvp. From the little picture, same that the one of my cohorts showed. Do we take them both, or can we replace Lactile Mpp with Lactoferrin?

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Dr Doug: I. I would replace Mvp. With Lactoferrin, because there the only benefit of potential benefit of Mvp. Is, it has Lacto proxidase. I looked at Lacto Proxidase as an independent intervention, and could not find compelling data to recommend lacto proxidase. Actually some interesting

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Dr Doug: theoretical data on why, it wouldn't be helpful. But it's not enough for me to say, Don't take it, but if you can get lactoferin, which is probably the more beneficial of the 2 alone, I would just do that.

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David Callen: Alright, that's all I wanted to know.

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Dr Doug: Awesome.

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David Callen: Right.

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Dr Doug: So, Sharon. Yeah, so Sharon just popped in there. Mvp, so Mvp is the the milk basic protein product that has lactofer and lacto proxies.

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Dr Doug: in Sarah. I think that. So Sarah put in the chat. If you go to Algae website and use the oh, hh, 10, you'll get 10% off. That might not be true anymore. That coupon code got hijacked and a bunch of newspapers put it out which really screwed up our plan. But we're we either have a link. So try the code. If the code doesn't work, we have a direct link. So that's what's been happening, and we'll make sure that that's updated in the slack. I'm gonna send that slack to

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Dr Doug: Brett right now.

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Dr Doug: maybe

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Dr Doug: for supplements. There it is.

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Dr Doug: Hippie.

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sjcsr: Dr. Lucas,

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Dr Doug: Him, the.

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sjcsr: This is Sue. I've been taken for years. The garden of life bone raw calcium.

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Dr Doug: Yeah.

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sjcsr: And if you look at the box, it says at the very back.

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sjcsr: it's an algae cal based formula, and I've called them. And they said they source it from the exact same place.

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sjcsr: and it's it's less expensive. But my question is.

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sjcsr: if you've ever looked at the I know they were bought out by nestle. I don't know if the if all the ingredients I haven't compared it with the Algal cal product.

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sjcsr: Aye, but

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sjcsr: you is it different?

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Dr Doug: It is different. So let's review it. Because we get this.

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Dr Doug: I get this question a lot.

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sjcsr: Oh, you do!

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Dr Doug: Course.

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Dr Doug: our our bone health audience is very smart and loves to do research, and I love it. And it just it brings up a lot of questions, which is fine. That's what we're here for.

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Dr Doug: So let me actually find the I'm like, I'll pull it up as soon as I got it.

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Dr Doug: Garden of life.

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Dr Doug: not the Preen at all.

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Dr Doug: I'll share my screen when I got it. Here. Where is it?

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Dr Doug: What's it? Called again.

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sjcsr: It's called rock calcium.

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Dr Doug: Where is it?

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sjcsr: And it's called vitamin code, raw calcium.

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Dr Doug: And then there's also. So there's that one. And then there's the vitamin code grow bone system.

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sjcsr: Right that has the strontium.

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Dr Doug: Got it. Well, let's look at both, so I'll share my screen here.

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sjcsr: Because it's a big difference in price.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Alright, let me do this.

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Dr Doug: And I talked to Dean Newell about this. So Dean's the CEO of Al Jakal.

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Dr Doug: When we were

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Dr Doug: debating on how closely we want to work together. So let's just walk through it, in fact, actually

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Dr Doug: well, I'll just tell you as we go. So

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Dr Doug: let's just start at the top. Can everybody see this big enough?

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Dr Doug: Yeah, depends on depends on what you're on, I assume. Okay? So if we look at the supplement facts of this versus Al jakal, and we'll compare it to Alicia cal plus.

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Dr Doug: which would be the comparable product. So this is serving size of 4 capsules, same thing with algae, Cal. So it's 2 capsules twice a day.

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Dr Doug: Service per container 15. That's something to consider when you're looking at the price, and we can. We can do that math as well.

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sjcsr: You can buy. You can buy like I have a hundred 20.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go.

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sjcsr: Yeah. There's a couple.

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Dr Doug: So it's a month. And then is that true? For the alja cow plus.

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sjcsr: I don't know.

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Dr Doug: Let's just do. Let's do the full deal here.

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Dr Doug: How do we get talking about supplements again?

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sjcsr: Patent.

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Dr Doug: Every time.

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Dr Doug: See, Google doesn't want me to put my ads on top of out account.

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Dr Doug: Why not Google

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Dr Doug: Auschwitz? Great. So let's do what's inside?

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Dr Doug: Do you supplement facts?

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Dr Doug: Okay? So then let's compare. So

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Dr Doug: we've got vitamin C.

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Dr Doug: From culture of the I believe that's the yeast. So 50 milligrams, Alger plus vitamin C, as

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Dr Doug: that's funny. It's not as calcium as corbey.

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Dr Doug: Matt

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Dr Doug: website, error website, error. So anyway, it's circulated vitamin c vitamin d from D 3 40 micrograms. And that's gonna be very similar. So d 3 somewhere in here.

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Dr Doug: d 3, 1,600 Iu is about the same right? So 40 microgram micrograms of 600 iu. Same

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Dr Doug: vitamin. K. Again, this is from the S. Cervethith, Cca. 120 mics

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Dr Doug: static

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Dr Doug: vitamin K. As MK. 700 mics.

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Dr Doug: So it's slightly less K. But remember, we usually pair it with the D 3,

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Dr Doug: and then 1,100 milligrams of calcium. So now it's 1,100 milligrams here versus 720 milligrams here.

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Dr Doug: So there's less calcium and algecow, which for me is, probably I would actually prefer if they were to cut that in half again. For most people

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Dr Doug: magnesium again, from the algae, 357 milligrams hard to know.

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Dr Doug: It's probably not elemental magnesium. So what is? What kind of Mag? Is this? Actually so that would be interesting to know?

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Dr Doug: Because if you look in here. They have mag oxide, which is one of the things I don't love about the product. I know why they use mag oxide.

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Dr Doug: Here we go as magide and coming from the algae itself.

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Dr Doug: But there's not a lot of magnesium coming from the algae cause. If you look at the rest of the minerals that they're all trace right. There's not even enough to say what they are.

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Dr Doug: So this is mostly Mag Oxide. So when you go back here, and they say it's coming from the algae and Dead Sea minerals. Well, okay. But what kind of magnesium is that? So that's important to know.

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Dr Doug: They add some additional K. 2 is mk, 7 of 50 mics. So then, is this K from the algae, is it?

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Dr Doug: K. One, probably. And if that's so, then that's not as much vitamin. K.

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sjcsr: Right.

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Dr Doug: This already has strontium in it, but not very much so from naturally occurring. That's kind of interesting. They pulled that out. Actually.

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Dr Doug: that's a marketing scan, because that's such. So little strontium. That's not really even strontium. That's just a total marketing thing.

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Dr Doug: Boron 3 milligrams is good silica, 2.2 milligrams be interesting. So I think here they say, trace

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Dr Doug: silicon trace. Yeah.

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Dr Doug: and then vanadium, and then they throw in some probiotics for a good measure

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Dr Doug: so overall takeaway for me is it's similar. I think it probably has too much calcium. I don't think most people need that much calcium.

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Dr Doug: I would argue, most people don't really need this much calcium either.

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Dr Doug: but because it's coming from a whole food source, does it really matter? And you guys have probably heard me say this. It's a gray area when it comes from whole foods, literally whole foods. It's inversely related to cardiovascular risk and calcification when it comes from calcium, carbonate and calcium citrate, there is a linear relationship meaning that more equals more.

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Dr Doug: We're somewhere in between, is it one or the other? We don't really know. I would like to think that it's coming from a whole food source. So it's not going to have a negative impact. We certainly see that in the blood levels. But no long term data.

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Dr Doug: So for me, is this as good?

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Dr Doug: probably too much calcium.

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Dr Doug: I wouldn't use it alone.

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Dr Doug: It's similar, I would say it's similar.

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sjcsr: Cost, but.

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Dr Doug: As.

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sjcsr: Hear me!

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Dr Doug: 44, and then for us.

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Dr Doug: So $69 a month, you know, you can get 10% off at $61 a month. It's still significantly cheaper. But here's my other concern. Is that, as you said, this was bought by nestle, and that's true.

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Dr Doug: That's what Dean said as well. So I don't trust companies that directly are making products that are harming us

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Dr Doug: as would nestle. So I'm not going to buy it, nor would I recommend it, but I understand that

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Dr Doug: $15 matters, so I'll do it.

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sjcsr: Well, I'll do. I won't do. 4, I'll do 2 I'll supplement.

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sjcsr: and sometimes I'll throw a d. And a K. In there a little extra, but I have a girlfriend that fell down and heard her her leg terribly. She was in a wheelchair.

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sjcsr: and when she went to therapy I told her to take this raw calcium, and when she got to the therapy they said to her, What have you been doing? Cause you're way ahead of schedule when it comes to healing.

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sjcsr: so it works for her.

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Dr Doug: Yeah. Well.

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Dr Doug: anecdotal n of one.

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sjcsr: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, yeah. So I I just worry like quality matters to me a whole lot. And I know to Dean from algae. Cal said they used to actually sell, literally sell their algae to

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Dr Doug: garden of life.

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Dr Doug: And when Nestle bought them out that relationship changed. So they, you know, they might say they're getting it from the same source. It's actually, if you look at the

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Dr Doug: the algae, it's a different algae. So if you look at what it says, there, it says, from S. Serve of Aca.

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Dr Doug: and this one says, from

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Dr Doug: pull back up

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Dr Doug: from L superosit tim super puzzitos. That's easy to say. So.

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Cailin: University service here isn't even an algae. It's yeast.

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Dr Doug: That's what I thought. Who said that?

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Cailin: Me caitlin.

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Dr Doug: Jayline.

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Cailin: Organism. That's what I do. My research.

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Dr Doug: Awesome. So then so then, Caitlin, thank you for being here and being smart. So all right. So it's a yeast.

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Dr Doug: So now it's

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Dr Doug: so. Now I'm it's Baker's yeast great. So then, I'm wondering. So is this calcium naturally occurring from Algae.

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Dr Doug: Well, it really makes me wonder. Anyway.

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Dr Doug: I question it. I'll put it that way.

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sjcsr: Yeah, wow! What was the ingredient? He said, is ease.

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Dr Doug: Caitlin. It's s serve aca, which is you? I thought so. I just didn't want to.

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sjcsr: One of them.

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sjcsr: Okay. Good to know.

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Dr Doug: Anyway. Yeah. See? Smart community. Here.

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Cailin: I should check the calcium concentration in my cells, and so.

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Cailin: and I can't.

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Dr Doug: Let me know!

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Cailin: Well, the.

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Dr Doug: Print it out. Let me know.

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Sharon: Would you say that the calcium coming from yeast is maybe a natural form, cause I you were talking about

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Sharon: getting what you called rock calcium was problematic.

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Dr Doug: Yeah.

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Dr Doug: I don't know enough about used honestly. The only reason why I even know anything about algae is because of algae cal.

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Dr Doug: But Caitlin maybe could educate us.

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Dr Doug: Caleb, is there calcium in yeast?

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Dr Doug: I wouldn't think so.

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Cailin: Sorry I had to unmute it. That's a really good question. I'm not sure. Honestly, I'd I'd hate to say something that I'm not familiar with.

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Cailin: I don't work with like calcium signaling, or anything in East. I don't understand why they would have to. I mean, calcium is normally signaling, signalling molecule for like

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Cailin: neurons. So I can't imagine they have much calcium. Now.

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Dr Doug: Yeah. Nor do they have bones. So.

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Cailin: Right? Right? I'll I'll do a quick Google, and I'll get back to you guys. Okay.

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Dr Doug: Chat gpt.

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Dr Doug: thank you, sweetheart.

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sjcsr: I just wanna say that I ordered a few years ago the whole complete Algae cal system.

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sjcsr: and the best deal was for a year.

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sjcsr: and I live in a small place, and I had so much stuff.

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sjcsr: and then I I asked them in the beginning, can you just send me 6 months, and then when I finish it up, you send me the other 6. Well, they did it, but they said they'll never do it again.

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sjcsr: so it's just so much stuff.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, that's I mean, that's just a marketing, right? Like it's

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Dr Doug: I get it. If I wanted to sell supplements I would encourage people to buy a year in advance cause then you don't have to market to them again for 12 months. It's just business. It's just a business model, and they're a big company, you know.

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Dr Doug: they're a 8 figure company.

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Dr Doug: So question around.

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Dr Doug: did you? Yeah. So Julie checked on Al Jakal website. And it doesn't work. So I'll have Brett and make sure that we drop the new link

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Dr Doug: because we're updating all the Youtube videos and stuff. So I know that was frustrating. We we

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Dr Doug: they reported initially that we had. We had given them like 6 figures in sales. And they're like, Oh, no. We saw it in U.S.A. today.

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Dr Doug: you know.

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Dr Doug: Okay.

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Dr Doug: so we're not that cool. Okay,

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Dr Doug: Janet has a question. Janet has a question about hyper calciuria.

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Dr Doug: Oh, such a challenging topic.

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Dr Doug: so

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Dr Doug: she's taken down her vitamin. D

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Dr Doug: great! How does one? That's a great way to say that. How does one balance vitamin d and calcium without tripping the hyper calciure wire great. So for those that aren't familiar with this super fun term hyper calciuria just means that you're peeing out a lot of calcium.

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Dr Doug: So I'm actually looking for the right

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Dr Doug: nephrologist to interview about this topic.

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Dr Doug: So when when the kidneys are excreting more calcium than we want them to, there really isn't any danger in that outside of, unless someone is at risk for developing kidney stones.

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Dr Doug: And so and I've talked to a number of people about this in the bone health space, because when we use a drug like forteo or temlos, for example.

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Dr Doug: hyper calciuria is common.

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Dr Doug: which is actually counterintuitive.

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Dr Doug: but when.

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Dr Doug: unless they're unless they are at high risk of kidney stones, they don't usually care. So they don't bring them off the drug. They just say, yep, you're peeing out a lot of calcium, but we're still monitoring your bone, and it's your bone is still getting better. Hopefully. But what I think happens here is that we get people that have a diagnosis of osteoporosis.

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Dr Doug: They start taking calcium, they start taking vitamin D and vitamin K, and then they go to their endocrinologist, and they get a 24 h urine sample, and then they have hyper calciuria. It happens all the time. But it's predictable.

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Dr Doug: right? So your body is really good at at knowing how much calcium it needs, and then, whatever calcium it doesn't need, it kicks out, and the only way for it. To go out is through your urine.

325

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Dr Doug: So if you increase vitamin, D, you increase vitamin. K, you're going to increase absorption utilization. But then you've got to get it out.

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Dr Doug: And so I see this all the time, and usually what we do is say, well, let's back down on your calcium intake, because you probably don't need it.

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Dr Doug: We don't know that that calcium coming out of your urine is coming from your bones because there's calcium all over your body, although it is stored in your bones primarily. But there's calcium everywhere, and you're getting it through diet. So it very well just may be that you're kicking out calcium that you don't need.

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Dr Doug: So I have people that are on a lot of doctors will put people on hydrochloricide, which is an older diuretic drug which kicks calcium back into the system. But I would argue.

329

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Dr Doug: if your body thinks you need to get rid of the calcium.

330

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Dr Doug: you probably shouldn't kick it back into the system

331

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Dr Doug: right? Unless we know that there's something negative that's happening as a result of that. Or they're developing calcium based kidney stones, which is something to be concerned about. So I this is a really frustrating one, and it's not always easy to fix, but usually just like you did, Janet, pulling back on d. 3 to a level that is reasonable. And I would argue, 40 is actually perfect.

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Dr Doug: So pulling back your vitamin d. 3 or 25 hydroxy serum level to 40 is a really good starting point, because in our practice there's no reason for anybody to be over 50 with 25 hydroxy, because there's no evidence to say that people talk about 60 to 80 right now is the sweet spot, but that 60 to 80, naturally of 25 hydroxy and blood, not through supplementation.

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Dr Doug: There's not a single study that shows that

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Dr Doug: 25 hydroxy through supplementation of choli calciiparol has any benefit whatsoever.

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Dr Doug: and so we are almost everybody in the bone. Health space has a vitamin D of over 100, because we're all been told that vitamin d really matters. Vitamin d does matter, but vitamin d like 15 matters vitamin d at 40 is probably perfect.

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Dr Doug: Does that make sense? Janet?

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: Yeah, I I really. So I I really thought, remember, I I saw the 40 and was scared. I started. I started taking vitamin d. Again.

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: I said, this is way, too. This is way too low.

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Dr Doug: Don't measure. Don't measure your urine, Janet.

340

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Dr Doug: I'm kidding. I'm not your doctor. So yeah, but it's it is. Again, it's predictable. And there's no benefit of vitamin d. Over honestly 30

341

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Dr Doug: arguably.

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: Okay? And so did. But she, I believe if I'm if I understood it correctly, she blended a high, hypocal Syria on a a vitamin d level that was too high. It was 1 20.

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Dr Doug: Yeah. And that's that's real.

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: It is okay. Okay.

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: Well, Kit, is there any way of telling whether the vitamin D is one of the Hypercale series? Come back, or do you have to get the 24 h urine test.

346

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Dr Doug: You have to measure it, I would argue, I mean in, unless you have a history of kidney stones, though what what are you worried about?

347

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: Well, the doctor said, your calcium is not going into your bones, you're excreting it instead. So she's relating that to the to the osteoporosis.

348

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Dr Doug: Sure, but she's guessing.

349

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: She is guessing.

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Dr Doug: Right. I mean, we're always guessing.

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Dr Doug: But I would. I would argue that if you're getting adequate calcium through diet or supplementation, your body knows what to do with it. So if it is kicking it out through your urine, then why aren't you stimulating bone? So then, looking at like, you know. Am I doing the right resistance training? Am I doing impact training? Am I getting the other nutrients that it needs? Aside from calcium? So there'd be boron and stuff.

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: So the it's. It's a relief to me. Document that you said the hypocalia is is fairly common. I'm thinking I'm this unique individual.

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Dr Doug: Oh no!

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: Else has this, and it's dug dead. Okay.

355

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Dr Doug: No, it is your normal physiologic response. And it's the same argument I have against people measuring their urine. Ph.

356

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Dr Doug: right? So you kind of get this same circular like, I increase my protein. But I measure my urine. Ph, and every time I eat protein my urine page goes down and it's like, well, yeah, that's what it's going to do.

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: Okay.

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Dr Doug: Doesn't mean that it's it's destroying your bones, jumping to conclusions.

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Janet Parnes, Historical Portrayals by Lady J: Okay, thank you so much, doctor.

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Dr Doug: And Nancy? Great question. So we are good. I don't know how to answer this. I think that the team is still looking at the questions that come into the form, but I would just hold them for now until you come here, especially if you're gonna be here and we prioritize those that are here in person.

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Dr Doug: Audrey, I'll come back to you, Sharon. Let's answer your raised hand.

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Sharon: So I'm newish to this, and I'm going making my way through the

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Sharon: foundation course.

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Dr Doug: Huh!

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Sharon: So I some questions came up, and well, one that that I didn't expect to find in there was

366

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Sharon: How does Alpha Thalassemia affect

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Sharon: all this because the bone your bone there's more

368

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Sharon: I may be I may be getting it confused, but there's more

369

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Sharon: Is it? The truicular bone tends to be harder, denser, and more brittle.

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Dr Doug: Berl. Yeah. Good question. I I honestly haven't looked into that in depth. To be honest.

371

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Dr Doug: I don't know how to answer that question logically.

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Sharon: So so that gets me concerned about

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Sharon: it said the peak bone mass was 80% genetic.

374

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Sharon: some determined by genetics.

375

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Sharon: And so

376

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Sharon: and something about

377

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Sharon: for some. You might want to get an early adult, an early adulthood to get Adda

378

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Sharon: cause. I'm sorry about my son, because he has Alpha Thalia. My! He has a parent with Osteoporosis.

379

00:39:47.450 --> 00:39:51.029

Sharon: my my mom, and maybe my grandmother had it.

380

00:39:51.140 --> 00:39:57.029

Sharon: And we, you know I know dairy isn't a great a great place necessarily

381

00:39:57.260 --> 00:40:02.580

Sharon: to get calcium, cause it's but we can't have milk.

382

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Sharon: so I'm thinking, should is it over the top for a 21 year old male to be getting a dexa to.

383

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Dr Doug: Not at all.

384

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Dr Doug: not at all. I got my first Dexa when I was probably around that same age, and I've shared the story before, but I did a dexa for my wife's Phd. Project.

385

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Dr Doug: and I had the same t-score that I have now negative 1.5 then.

386

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Dr Doug: So if I had known what that meant, and anybody would have ever talked to me about it. Then I probably would have changed some things about how I ate and what I did over the last

387

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Dr Doug: or 25 years.

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Dr Doug: So if he has high risk from a genetic and family perspective, absolutely, it would recommend him getting screened. What's the downside? It's a, you know, fraction of a bit of radiation.

389

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Dr Doug: and it could totally change his risk. Factors for bad things.

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Sharon: So can I get that? Can I? Just

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Sharon: I thought they had get an order for it, I guess, is the.

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Dr Doug: Yeah, you you would have to talk to his primary care. Whoever manages him and just let them know. Hey, he's got all these risk factors. I would love for him to get screened. I can't guarantee that insurance would pay for it.

393

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Dr Doug: but you could try, and if you, if they won't pay for it. Then cash Addxa for cash should be a hundred dollars to $200, so shouldn't be terrible.

394

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Sharon: So you for the private deck set for cash. You still need an order.

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Dr Doug: Maybe depends where you go.

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Sharon: I see.

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Sharon: and it doesn't say in the test, like in the course which genetic test

398

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Dr Doug: There. There isn't really a great genetic test, specifically looking at risk factors for osteoporosis. This is something where I know some people have talked about it. But I've never seen a commercial product.

399

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Dr Doug: because we don't really know. While family history is important. We don't really know what the Snps are, where the actual gene locations that you could say, Oh, you have this allele or that allele, and this equates to this risk.

400

00:41:58.500 --> 00:42:01.549

Dr Doug: We don't really, as far as I know, nobody's really nailed that down.

401

00:42:04.120 --> 00:42:05.019

Sharon: And then

402

00:42:06.650 --> 00:42:09.139

Sharon: how do I find

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00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:11.709

Sharon: the insurance codes?

404

00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:17.230

Sharon: that because what's in the workbook is the private

405

00:42:18.456 --> 00:42:19.730

Sharon: lab, core

406

00:42:20.370 --> 00:42:21.450

Sharon: codes.

407

00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:23.120

Sharon: Correct

408

00:42:23.330 --> 00:42:23.840

Sharon: those.

409

00:42:24.108 --> 00:42:37.249

Dr Doug: The same lab core codes that anybody would have access to. I mean, they are the codes that we use. But I don't think they're different because we have a cash relationship with them. I think that'd be the same code if you looked it up on their website.

410

00:42:38.770 --> 00:42:41.378

Sharon: Oh, cause they differ from

411

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:48.060

Sharon: cause some of the I had. I had some labs done in December.

412

00:42:48.200 --> 00:42:51.728

Sharon: just kind of the the wellness and the

413

00:42:52.310 --> 00:42:56.529

Sharon: The endocrinologist that I saw that wanted to get some more labs

414

00:42:56.860 --> 00:42:57.755

Sharon: and

415

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Sharon: The codes are different.

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00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:07.659

Dr Doug: Yeah. And so I would look at like, what is the actual lab? So for each of those labs there's a lot of different versions.

417

00:43:08.106 --> 00:43:14.489

Dr Doug: Oh, Julie just said, those are only Lab core codes. They will be different at other labs. Yeah, true.

418

00:43:14.780 --> 00:43:29.870

Dr Doug: Julie was just commenting from our team. But also different tests. So, for example, if you say, this is, this is the 5 digit code for lab, core for extra dial. Well, there's probably 15 extra dial tests for Lab Core. So it's very possible they just ordered a different test. That that looks very similar.

419

00:43:32.590 --> 00:43:34.609

Dr Doug: But I'm pretty pretty sure about that

420

00:43:36.740 --> 00:43:38.870

Dr Doug: did I make to answer your questions, Sharon?

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Sharon: yeah, I, I.

422

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Dr Doug: Okay. Oh.

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Sharon: Well, actually, I do have one more sorry. Because I I was lucky enough to get into obt yn, that's focusing on women's health now, and she's actually a member of

424

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Sharon: what is it? A 4 M.

425

00:43:56.930 --> 00:43:57.750

Dr Doug: Okay, that's good.

426

00:43:57.750 --> 00:43:59.701

Sharon: And so she was.

427

00:44:00.580 --> 00:44:04.200

Sharon: so I felt it was easy to advocate for myself with her.

428

00:44:04.290 --> 00:44:07.890

Sharon: and she was just very quick. She was like, Yep, you need estrogen.

429

00:44:08.230 --> 00:44:10.559

Sharon: but she does the patch

430

00:44:11.705 --> 00:44:15.930

Sharon: and I think you had some reservations about the path.

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00:44:16.426 --> 00:44:16.839

Dr Doug: Should be.

432

00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:18.699

Sharon: Well, this is all natural.

433

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Dr Doug: Yeah, the patch is okay. The benefit of the patch is that it's covered by insurance, and it's a commercial product.

434

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Dr Doug: So I but my reservation about the patch is that it is often mixed with a progestin, so I don't recommend that, and I would just make sure that it is extra dial, only coming through the patch.

435

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Dr Doug: and then then looking at dosing and making sure that you get follow up testing to see what your actual serum values of Esther Dial are because a low dose patch is not going to give adequate Ester dial numbers to impact bone, heart and brain.

436

00:44:51.740 --> 00:44:52.340

Dr Doug: But she's.

437

00:44:52.340 --> 00:44:55.848

Sharon: There would also be some progesterone, because

438

00:44:56.940 --> 00:45:00.529

Sharon: because if you have a uterus, you need to have also have to address their own.

439

00:45:00.790 --> 00:45:04.080

Dr Doug: I would argue, if you have any other organs, you also need a progesterone.

440

00:45:04.620 --> 00:45:08.349

Sharon: Okay. So I don't know if that's part of the patch.

441

00:45:08.900 --> 00:45:13.989

Dr Doug: It's not. It should be delivered through an oral oral micronized progesterone capsule

442

00:45:14.160 --> 00:45:17.230

Dr Doug: that you would take as a pill, and if she didn't give you that.

443

00:45:17.240 --> 00:45:23.309

Dr Doug: And she said that you're getting a progesterone, then it is part of the patch, and that would be a synthetic progestin.

444

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Dr Doug: and that I would not recommend.

445

00:45:25.690 --> 00:45:29.399

Sharon: Okay. Well, she just handed me they were nice up to hand me

446

00:45:29.420 --> 00:45:33.139

Sharon: written prescriptions. So that well, actually.

447

00:45:33.150 --> 00:45:37.179

Sharon: I haven't actually asked gotten a prescription for the hormones, because

448

00:45:37.200 --> 00:45:42.660

Sharon: I asked to be tested for testosterone as well. Yeah. So I haven't done those.

449

00:45:42.660 --> 00:45:50.179

Dr Doug: Wait and see what she delivers to you, and then you're welcome to follow up with questions obviously can't tell you exactly what to do, but I can tell you what we do.

450

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Sharon: Okay.

451

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Dr Doug: Okay. Great.

452

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Sharon: Like you.

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Dr Doug: You're welcome. Yes, Caitlin.

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Cailin: Can we talk on the topic of hormones really quick about cycling your hormones based on what phase your cycle you would otherwise be in. I know you posted a video about it recently. And I thought I was psychotic for considering doing that prior to that video. But it's good to know that other people have that same thought.

455

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Dr Doug: Remind me, Caitlin, how old you are!

456

00:46:17.350 --> 00:46:19.945

Cailin: I'm 25 kind of thing about that.

457

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Dr Doug: But you are.

458

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Cailin: Having, like 60 grams per mill of estrogen in my body, is incredibly insufficient for being a 25 year old, supposed to be fertile.

459

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Cailin: Female. Yeah.

460

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Dr Doug: Correct. Correct? Yeah. And so a couple of different topics here. So one is cycling progesterone for women that have a natural cycle. And if you're okay with disclosing that, remind me whether you do or don't.

461

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Cailin: I don't. I haven't for about 2 years, and that's probably why I'm here.

462

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Dr Doug: Probably so. So right? So this is an interesting topic for both premature ovarian failure which we don't know if that's actually your diagnosis, but sort of what you're living with, right? Like, why, why haven't you had a cycle? Assuming everything else is normal.

463

00:47:03.220 --> 00:47:04.426

Dr Doug: And so

464

00:47:05.250 --> 00:47:12.950

Dr Doug: So whether or not. You are technically pre-menopausal, but not cycling or postmenopausal, and obviously not cycling.

465

00:47:13.310 --> 00:47:17.020

Dr Doug: The question is, Is there benefit to cycling the progesterone?

466

00:47:17.110 --> 00:47:24.970

Dr Doug: And then, with or without changing your dose of astrodial. And it all comes down to this idea that if we wanted to be, if we wanted to truly optimize hormones.

467

00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:31.610

Dr Doug: and we don't care anything about risk, which obviously we do. But let's just assume for a second like thought project.

468

00:47:31.640 --> 00:47:56.170

Dr Doug: If we truly wanted to optimize hormones and keep everything as natural as possible, which is, that's a loaded word. Then we would follow the natural rhythm of estrogen and progesterone, which would be for the first 14 days of a woman cycle you would have gradually increasing estrogen, and then it would drop off, and then you would have increasing progesterone, and it would fly in for a while, and then it would drop off. And then you would actually menstrate right?

469

00:47:56.210 --> 00:48:10.640

Dr Doug: Doing that for a premenopausal woman doesn't seem crazy because she should be doing it anyway. Doing that in a post. Menopausal woman seems like a hard ask, because most women, from my understanding are happy to be done with that. Once you go through menopause, it's like the silver lining of menopause, right.

470

00:48:11.016 --> 00:48:11.393

Cailin: Right.

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00:48:11.770 --> 00:48:13.577

Dr Doug: Right. And so

472

00:48:14.260 --> 00:48:25.450

Dr Doug: so I am. I'm being trained in this topic, and I've talked to providers who are using what's called physiologic dosing or cycling dosing. I think it's an interesting space, but it is not well studied.

473

00:48:25.690 --> 00:48:46.219

Dr Doug: so I don't think it's crazy by any means to consider like, hey, this kind of makes sense, especially to 25. But let's let's take, for example, someone who's 55 who just went through menopause. Is it smart for them to have higher levels of estrogen than drop off. And then high levels of progesterone. We don't know. There's no, there are not long term studies on using true physiologic doses.

474

00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:49.779

Dr Doug: I think you would get better impact on your heart, brain, and bones.

475

00:48:50.180 --> 00:49:06.709

Dr Doug: probably your skin, probably all your other organs right? Because that the the cycling, like the push of estrogen and the withdrawal of Progesterone, is logical. It makes sense, because that's why your body does it. In the first place, the whole idea of static dosing is kind of weird, right? So like, why would I use a low dose estrogen?

476

00:49:06.710 --> 00:49:24.169

Dr Doug: I mean relatively low dose, right. So even even at what we consider physiologic at 60 to 80 picogram for Ml. Plus the right unit. But even at 60 to 80, that's really low. If you consider that the average espredial dose for a woman in a premon of puzzle, if you look, the whole month

477

00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:28.080

Dr Doug: is around 150 to 200. So it's still really low.

478

00:49:28.290 --> 00:49:35.989

Dr Doug: If we truly wanted to give a woman a physiologic dosing, we would start around 60 to 80, and then we would ramp up and you would hit like 300

479

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.910

Dr Doug: right, and then you would fall back off.

480

00:49:38.488 --> 00:49:48.879

Dr Doug: It's complex. There's not long-term data, so I'm not. I am not doing that for anybody yet, but those protocols do exist. So I'm I'm open to doing it.

481

00:49:48.980 --> 00:49:57.530

Dr Doug: I think that the research will come, and I know that there's one at least one nih study that is getting underway. But we're not going to have results for a decade.

482

00:49:57.680 --> 00:50:05.120

Dr Doug: Yeah. So I think it's compelling, especially from a bond health perspective. But we're already seeing improvements at the 60 to 80 of Astro dial. So

483

00:50:05.220 --> 00:50:07.329

Dr Doug: how much do we really need to push that.

484

00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:23.129

Cailin: Yeah, I just I always just wonder like if there could be more improve, even if I, you know, made my daily dose like 150 or something like that. I feel like that would be physiologically a lot more normal than me staying at 60, just in my particular situation. And you also mentioned

485

00:50:23.140 --> 00:50:26.950

Cailin: possibility of being post menopausal at 25. Is that actually possible?

486

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Dr Doug: I mean, it's called. It's not. You're not called postmenopausal. At 25. You're called early early ovarian failure, but technically it's the same thing. So is it possible? Sure, the big question for you would be, why.

487

00:50:40.622 --> 00:50:42.150

Dr Doug: but yeah, it happens.

488

00:50:42.520 --> 00:50:44.850

Cailin: How do you, if you have ovarian failure.

489

00:50:45.537 --> 00:50:52.722

Dr Doug: You just would, if you not. If you're not cycling, and your Fsh and Lh. Are super high. Then we would have to look, we would look at that.

490

00:50:53.080 --> 00:50:54.219

Cailin: But existent.

491

00:50:54.770 --> 00:50:58.020

Dr Doug: Right. But are your fas fsh in la truly high? I don't remember.

492

00:50:58.270 --> 00:51:00.609

Cailin: Those are not existent is what what I'm saying.

493

00:51:00.610 --> 00:51:02.440

Dr Doug: Not as as in their low.

494

00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:03.729

Cailin: They're like, super low. Yeah.

495

00:51:04.170 --> 00:51:09.939

Dr Doug: Yeah. So if they're super low, then I wouldn't. I wouldn't call it that. But we can. Let's let's talk about this

496

00:51:09.970 --> 00:51:11.190

Dr Doug: elsewhere.

497

00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:25.140

Dr Doug: because it's an interesting concept. But for you we're just supporting it. And for someone who is younger. Then, like, what is the risk of reproducing physiological levels, it's almost like, why would we have to prove that that's safe if that's what the body does, anyway.

498

00:51:25.140 --> 00:51:26.310

Cailin: Right, exactly.

499

00:51:26.310 --> 00:51:35.359

Dr Doug: Yeah. But in a post menopausal woman, that's a little bit different. Right? So like, is is menopause actually designed to protect you from something, and we don't know the answer to that.

500

00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:36.989

Cailin: Thank you. Don't wanna take up any more time.

501

00:51:37.170 --> 00:51:38.569

Dr Doug: That's okay. It's okay. Yeah.

502

00:51:39.090 --> 00:51:41.970

Dr Doug: Alright, let me catch up here with a chat.

503

00:51:42.020 --> 00:51:50.070

Dr Doug: Saw this question from Nancy about Makka. So I was just scripting a talk. And I'm going to record on

504

00:51:50.190 --> 00:51:51.240

Dr Doug: Friday.

505

00:51:51.260 --> 00:51:57.309

Dr Doug: So yeah, there was a talk on Mock up when I was at the A. 4 M. Conference and

506

00:51:57.430 --> 00:52:06.009

Dr Doug: the product feminists pro is uses a product called Mock a go. So mock is an interesting route

507

00:52:06.040 --> 00:52:23.300

Dr Doug: that can be ground up or extracted, and it will work from the central perspective to increase natural estrogen production. So the research is pretty cool that it will definitely help in a perimenopause and early postmenopausal states to improve symptoms of menopause. It'll help with hot flashes, night sweats.

508

00:52:23.390 --> 00:52:35.750

Dr Doug: And there's some thought that it will help with bone density. They have a study that that says that. But they're only looking at astrodial levels as a way to say that it improves bone density markers, which is a little confusing for me, but

509

00:52:36.140 --> 00:52:44.579

Dr Doug: so I think Maca's pretty cool where I think Maca could not be helpful, is for women that are not in the early post menopause state.

510

00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:58.339

Dr Doug: So if you have gone through what we were talking about, ovarian failure, which is essentially menopause, right? So you go through menopause. Your ovaries don't work anymore. If you're telling your brain through Maca to make more estrogen from your ovaries. But your ovaries aren't working. It's like

511

00:52:58.380 --> 00:53:10.529

Dr Doug: telling the factory to make more estrogen, but the factory to shut down. So it's not going to do anything. And if you look at the studies they used early post menopausal women, I'm sure, very intentionally, because they still have the capacity to produce something.

512

00:53:11.160 --> 00:53:16.790

Dr Doug: and it helped them with their symptoms. But if you took a woman who's 5 years 10 years out. I bet the answer would be they would do nothing.

513

00:53:17.509 --> 00:53:30.189

Dr Doug: So it's not like an estrogen receptor thing like would be the, you know the the phytoestrogens, the genesine, the soy, that kind of stuff. This is working through the brain. But your ovaries would have to actually work to have an impact. If that makes sense.

514

00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:32.440

nancy m: Could I ask something about that?

515

00:53:32.500 --> 00:53:34.010

nancy m: Yes, ma'am, I need to.

516

00:53:34.520 --> 00:53:46.269

nancy m: For some reason. I I maybe I just got this all screwed up, but I thought that there was some natural estrogen production production production outside of I don't know from the adren, from the adrenals or something besides the ovaries.

517

00:53:46.270 --> 00:54:12.040

Dr Doug: Yeah, not not much. So there's a little bit of cellular production of estrogen through dhga precursors. So you can get Dha to estrogen and estrogen into Estradiol, and that can happen on a cellular level. And that's why even post menopausal women on the anti estrogen therapy for breast cancer. If you were to go on like a tamoxifen or a drug like that that dropped your estrogen levels to 0. That's why they're so symptomatic.

518

00:54:12.200 --> 00:54:31.540

Dr Doug: You give, even though you could say, well, your estrodial was like 0 to begin with, but it wasn't really 0 cellularly right. It was 0 in blood. So there is the capacity to improve estrogen somewhat, but to see a true rise in estradiol levels in blood. I just don't think you're gonna see it, and I couldn't. There was no human evidence to show that that would be true. The further out you get from menopause.

519

00:54:32.220 --> 00:54:35.729

Dr Doug: Thank you. I think there's no downside, though, either.

520

00:54:35.740 --> 00:54:40.309

Dr Doug: And I would recommend to like that product that specific femines

521

00:54:40.330 --> 00:55:00.720

Dr Doug: pro product with Mac a go. That's that's the most well studied version of it. There's a lot of other versions out there. And again, this talk. It was really cool. They talked about like the different colors and the different varieties, and the grown in different altitudes will have different impacts. So it's interesting. But I think it's not a replacement for estrogen. If you can tolerate estrogen.

522

00:55:01.010 --> 00:55:03.230

nancy m: So just start taking, and I'll see what happens.

523

00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:04.920

Dr Doug: Yeah, yeah, let us know.

524

00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:13.629

Dr Doug: Let's see here, Audrey was saying that she had premature ovarian failure in her thirties and kind of tested even high dose

525

00:55:13.850 --> 00:55:33.389

Dr Doug: of Hrt didn't come close to natural hormone levels. Yeah, and that that would make sense. Right? So like, there was this, that recent study that just came out talking about how potentially high dose estrogen was associated with increased risk of some bad mortality, morbidity things. But they're talking about commercial products, and there are no high dose commercial products. They're all low dose products.

526

00:55:33.450 --> 00:55:46.349

Dr Doug: So we don't have enough evidence to say that it would be harmful or beneficial. But in a young woman it would make sense to me for sure to consider higher doses. But you would have to do that with compounded products, or potentially, even injection

527

00:55:50.900 --> 00:55:52.670

Dr Doug: and cart carrot cart

528

00:55:53.170 --> 00:55:55.429

Dr Doug: Kerry. Oh, Carrie! Law, of course! Thank you.

529

00:55:55.450 --> 00:56:06.520

Dr Doug: trying to add an L to your first name there, Kerry. So, Carrie said. She took Maka for hot flashes for 5, 5 years in a minute. Pause and didn't notice any change at hot flashes. So thank you for that.

530

00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:12.140

Dr Doug: Okay? Last minute, Caitlin, did you have another question?

531

00:56:14.620 --> 00:56:16.402

Dr Doug: I'll lower your hand for you.

532

00:56:16.700 --> 00:56:17.990

Cailin: Yeah, no, I didn't. My bad.

533

00:56:17.990 --> 00:56:20.710

Dr Doug: Okay, I gotcha. That's fine. Okay, great.

534

00:56:20.840 --> 00:56:24.419

Dr Doug: Alright. So next week team, we've got

535

00:56:25.730 --> 00:56:27.689

Dr Doug: Nick. I think.

536

00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:48.840

Dr Doug: Nick Truby. So Nick is our Phd exercise physiologist that designed our what we call truby training. And so he's again, super smart exercise physiology. Guy and I basically just loaded into him all of the evidence on the right types of training for bone health. And he created he created a specific program. So we have

537

00:56:48.979 --> 00:57:04.060

Dr Doug: 3, 4, fourth Peer attending fourth tier pending levels of training that he's created specifically for bone health. So he's gonna come in here and answer questions about training, about lifting and kind of help. You

538

00:57:04.170 --> 00:57:11.949

Dr Doug: figure out some of those things from your perspective. So if that's compelling to you, Nick is a super cool guy, and I look forward to having you all exposed to that.

539

00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:15.539

Dr Doug: And then let's see here, Diane.

540

00:57:16.250 --> 00:57:26.319

Dr Doug: yeah. So Diane's putting in here. Do do do do do S. 3 patch in separate progesterone prescription.

541

00:57:26.410 --> 00:57:37.829

Dr Doug: How do you know if it's synthetic estrogen? So the all of the all of the commercial products? This is a funny thing about the word bio identical. So the 17 beta astral dial is

542

00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:44.510

Dr Doug: biodenternic, astrodial. And yes, that's available commercially, we prefer to do it through a compounding pharmacy, because I can manipulate the dose better.

543

00:57:44.610 --> 00:57:49.400

Dr Doug: This is technically bio identical. It's also commercial. It is

544

00:57:49.490 --> 00:57:55.889

Dr Doug: synthetic, as in it's made, not in the human body. So there's like different terms make different

545

00:57:55.970 --> 00:58:01.440

Dr Doug: like in different ways. So yes, it's synthetic, but it is also biogenical. So 2 things can be true. There.

546

00:58:01.860 --> 00:58:03.090

Dr Doug: Does that make sense? Tang.

547

00:58:04.290 --> 00:58:06.650

Dr Doug: Is that you, Diane Miller, is that different? Diane

548

00:58:06.670 --> 00:58:07.780

Dr Doug: different Diane

549

00:58:08.030 --> 00:58:09.430

Dr Doug: Diane's ipad, Diane.

550

00:58:10.180 --> 00:58:18.749

Diane’s iPad: I think it was I was responding to Sharon, who had some questions about it, that when I mentioned the patch, and she said, how do you know it's not synthetic? So I was.

551

00:58:19.049 --> 00:58:35.810

Dr Doug: And let me clarify too. So what I was saying is the the progestin. So if there are a bunch of different progestins on the market. So, like medroxy progesterone acetate is the most well known provera from the Women's Health initiative. But since the over the last 25 years there are dozens of progestins.

552

00:58:35.910 --> 00:58:43.710

Dr Doug: So for us, progesterone is oral micronized progesterone and nothing else. And if it says anything else, it's not that

553

00:58:45.470 --> 00:58:46.429

Dr Doug: that makes sense.

554

00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:49.840

Dr Doug: All right. I gotta run.

555

00:58:50.390 --> 00:58:53.100

Dr Doug: Thank you very much. Everybody. Bye.

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